Posts by True North

58

OK this not sleeping thing has got to stop

by Lady Lee in

jw
friends

well it's not that i'm not sleeping - i am - just only 2-3 hours at a time.. when i try to stay awake i start feeling nauseous from the lack of sllep and have to go lie down.

then sleep for a couple of hours then the pain in my feet starts up and i am awake.. i just spent the second whole night this week wide awake.

then during the day i am falling asleep for two hours then awake for an hour and back to sleep.

True North

Lady Lee,

I'll second exjdub's advice to try acupuncture. My own experience with this form of treatment and the experiences of others of my acquaintance with it has been very good. I'm not sure of the best way to go about finding a good acupuncturist but exjdub's recommendation to seek out one having had Chinese training sounds sensible. Also, the government in your area may require or at least recognize some sort of licensing or accreditation for acupuncturists and, if so, that may help you to narrow the field somewhat as well, helping you to avoid ill-trained or marginally trained practitioners.

I too had the experience of a chiropractor making something worse and I have been leery of them since. However, I think that you'll find that treatment by acupuncture will at worst be a neutral experience -- it will either work or it won't and though you'll be out some money I don't know of anything that acupuncture involves that would cause or aggravate injury (though practititioners may vary in approach and may include other forms of treatment and may also have an excessive regard for non-tradtional medicine and equally excessive disregard for tradtional medicine, so you would want to continue to rigorously apply your own good sense whenever treatment recommendations are being made). They won't yank on you or twist you or crack you or any such thing. In my experience, you'll scarcely feel the needles and there will be little if any discomfort.

My best wishes to you.

27

JWs gladly benefit from war yet refuse to honour the dead

by catlady in

as i learn more about the borg i am continually shocked by what i discover.

i knew early on that they were pacifists but i had no idea that this included not honouring (or dishonouring) those that have died under war conditions.

i find it so hypocritical that the dubs are quite happy to benefit from the principles (ie freedom, liberty, justice, etc) that these men & women fought for & yet refuse to pay tribute to them.

True North

XQsThaiPoes:

Actually JWs are NOT pacifist. We are partisan objectors.

I understand the point: JWs aren't against war, just against taking sides in wars conducted by human governments.

War is a zero sum game! It just reduces the population that is all....War does nothing but kill people.

But now here you are changing your initial position and coming out against war itself. Since you referred to JWs as "we", I'm assuming that you consider yourself to be one. Therefore, I would also assume that you must join with the "faithful and discreet slave" in applauding the assorted wars and massacres that were engaged in with God's direction and blessing according to the Bible. If that is true, then I don't see how you could be condemning war per se.

As for enjoying the benefits of war without having done anything to earn them, surely you would agree that JWs and their preaching work benefited from the defeat of the Axis governments in WWII. Instead of the continuing oppression that JWs would have experienced in Germany and Japan had the Axis powers won -- which oppression would have been extended to the conquered nations -- JWs enjoyed the freedom to preach and the opportunity to lead relatively secure, peaceful, prosperous lives amidst the great increase in their numbers in these countries that the post-war conditions facilitated.

I would like to say ww2 took power from 2 dictators in 2 small countries, but kept in power 2 dictators of 2 large countries. So even the most "moral" of wars WW2 is still a zero sum game. So one guy dies for "freedom" and the other for another dictator.

It is true that the fruits of victory were unevenly shared. The peoples of the Soviet Union made a huge sacrifice in a truly heroic struggle against a menace that promised even more misery than that already visited upon them by their own government. That they were denied the freedom they had earned was a great tragedy for them and for the Eastern European countries that became Soviet satellites. Still, though, it was better than what would have been their lot if enslaved by a foreign power that viewed Slavs as subhuman and Jews as fit only for extermination. And as far as it having been a zero sum game, not only did the Western Allies benefit from their victory -- in comparison to what would have been their lot in defeat -- the people of the Axis nations benefited as well since they have enjoyed a greater prosperity than they'd ever known in conditions of freedom they certainly would not have had under the Axis regimes. And this "win-win" outcome was in large part due to the generous, non-vindictive post-war behavior of the victorious Western governments that you seem to want to equate with the defeated Axis regimes and assorted other dictatorships.

20

Why didn't Abraham suspect it was Satan telling him to kill Isaac?

by True North in

haven't we all heard of those who've killed others -- even their own children -- after (they claimed) hearing a voice telling them to do so?

most people would consider these ones to have been insane if they really thought they'd heard such things.

on the other hand, some jws, i would suspect, would think that these murderers may actually have heard demonic voices.

True North

If I remember correctly it was Jehovah who told Abraham to kill Isaac to see how faithful Abraham was. Don't really know where you got it being Satan or a demon unless I was asleep when we were taught that one!

elle: Yes, according to the story, the order to kill Isaac did originate with God. I was questioning why Abraham would assume the voice he heard was God's. Given the horrific nature of the instructions and their apparent contradiction of God's previous promise to Abraham regarding Isaac, it would seem to me that a much more reasonable assumption for Abraham to have made would have been that the voice was from Satan or a demon unless -- of course -- Abraham did not believe in them or believe that they took any such active role in earthly affairs. He might also reasonably have questioned his own sanity before attributing such a thing to his God.

*puts foam on wall for True North*

SixofNine: Is that a good thing?

20

Why didn't Abraham suspect it was Satan telling him to kill Isaac?

by True North in

haven't we all heard of those who've killed others -- even their own children -- after (they claimed) hearing a voice telling them to do so?

most people would consider these ones to have been insane if they really thought they'd heard such things.

on the other hand, some jws, i would suspect, would think that these murderers may actually have heard demonic voices.

True North

Haven't we all heard of those who've killed others -- even their own children -- after (they claimed) hearing a voice telling them to do so? Most people would consider these ones to have been insane if they really thought they'd heard such things. On the other hand, some JWs, I would suspect, would think that these murderers may actually have heard demonic voices. Certainly, such behavior fits the profile of what could be considered "demonic".

My question, then, is this: why didn't Abraham suspect that the voice that instructed him to kill his son Isaac was from Satan or a demon? Not only was he being told to perform a demonic act, it was an act that should have seemed clearly inconsistent with God's promise he had received regarding Isaac's future. Did Abraham, perhaps, not believe in Satan or the demons?

14

Why weren't (aren't) we appalled that God required a human sacrifice?

by True North in

apologists for the genocidal behavior written of in the old testament have often stated that its victims simply got what they deserved, and that they deserved it in part because their unclean religious practices included human sacrifice, even the sacrifice of their own children.

christians have long prided themselves in comparison to many pagan religions in that christian religious practice has never included human sacrifice and that christian principles would make one abhor such practices.

so why did we (do we) so readily accept the concept that the christian god would require a human sacrifice -- of his own son, yet -- before he would allow himself to be propitiated?

True North

Apologists for the genocidal behavior written of in the Old Testament have often stated that its victims simply got what they deserved, and that they deserved it in part because their unclean religious practices included human sacrifice, even the sacrifice of their own children.

Christians have long prided themselves in comparison to many pagan religions in that Christian religious practice has never included human sacrifice and that Christian principles would make one abhor such practices. So why did we (do we) so readily accept the concept that the Christian God would require a human sacrifice -- of his own son, yet -- before he would allow himself to be propitiated? [A related "Leolaia question" that I have is this: have scholars ever suggested that the doctrine of the sacrifice and ransom might echo older, pre-Judeo-Christian beliefs in the efficacy of human sacrifice?]

19

Rights of Plant life - Now!

by Amazing1914 in

jw
friends

its time we stop persecuting plant, by george!

plants have feelings too, only unlike dogs and cats, they cannot even growl, moan or whimper!

why for that matter, a poor helpless little plant can't even run away in fear ... they are forced to stand there as wicked humans - probably capitalists - pluck them up from their roots just to eat them - yuck!

True North

Millions of animals lead reasonable and well-cared for (albeit short) lives they would not otherwise have if it were not for the food industry.

Abaddon,

From what I've read (and I'm still looking into this) millions of animals in contemporary factory "farms" lead anything but reasonable and well-cared for lives. I'm not at the point of believing that it is innately wrong to use animals for food but I do feel that a line has to be drawn dividing humane from inhumane treatment of them and I am concerned about whether or not that line has been crossed in connection with the food I eat.

BTW, I think it's ironic that so many people in the Western world have been outraged by the practice of eating dogs and cats in some East Asian countries while effectively not giving a sh*t about the treatment of the animals they consume.

26

Prince upset by Ben Affleck's swearing

by DevonMcBride in

jw
friends

when the public reads stuff like this, it makes them think how strange jw's are.

http://www.contactmusic.com/new/xmlfeed.nsf/0/3621e5bd9a9bd8e280256e78002de315!opendocument.

prince upset by ben affleck's swearing .

True North

The pop superstar - famous for his risque lyrics - hates to hear profanity since becoming a Jehovah's Witness and has dropped the more controversial songs from his current hits tour.

So, is he no longer cashing the royalty checks he receives for the continuing sales of recordings of his "more controversial songs"? I suppose he could donate them to charity, but the only approved charity for a faithful JW is the WT Society and its associated entities and they surely wouldn't accept such tainted money, would they?

BTW, a review in the April 29th Rolling Stone of his March 29th, 2004 concert in L.A. noted that while he has made some "graceful lyric changes" and has recently "tipped more" from the "profane" toward the "sacred", he has done so "without sacrificing either his trademark bumps and grinds or his wicked flirtatiousness." Has there been some new light regarding bumping, grinding, and wicked flirting?

8

Domestic abuse in Arab world

by Elsewhere in

jw
friends

what is interesting is when i did a search on the aljazeera news web site for her name (rania al-baz) absolutly nothing was found.. .

article matches for rania al-baz on aljazeera.net.

results are sorted by date.. results 0-0 of 0. no document found.

True North

If you searched on the official JW site for anything regarding physically abused JW women who had been asked by elders -- to whom they had turned for help -- "What have you been doing to cause your husband's behavior?" or "Are you being submissive enough?", how much info would you find? Of course, maybe these sorts of things have never happened...

I wonder if most religions -- as they have been practiced, not just as they have been preached -- have helped or hurt women. Sometimes it seems to me that the position of women in today's world may be best in some of its least religious segments.

125

Is the Bible Just B.S.?

by shamus in

do you think that god enjoys killing people?

it sure sounds like it to me; jw doctrine more or less scared me into thinking that god is going to kill all persons whom he/she thinks is not doing his will.

my question is, how can god kill someone for not being "christian", or following the bible out of sheer ignorance?

True North

LittleToe:

I believe that the bible writers felt inspired to write about their experiences.

How close do you think "felt inspired" was to "were inspired". And by whom or what and how?

....this can easily be extended to apocryphal works, too.

Can this also be extended to any other writers as well (that is, other than those who wrote the Bible books and apocrypha)? Could any of these others have felt inspired as well? Or has the source of this inspiration only been active with Jewish writers from the first or second century AD and before?

Divining between what actually happend and what is symbolism and literature, is another matter.

Is this something you believe you are able to do? Do you think it is necessary to do so? Can such divination be successfully performed by any rational person according to some logical method or is it a personal matter of faith, conviction, and feeling?

125

Is the Bible Just B.S.?

by shamus in

do you think that god enjoys killing people?

it sure sounds like it to me; jw doctrine more or less scared me into thinking that god is going to kill all persons whom he/she thinks is not doing his will.

my question is, how can god kill someone for not being "christian", or following the bible out of sheer ignorance?

True North

LittleToe,

When did God get a say as to which books made up the tome?

I guess no one actually did ever write something called "The Bible"; different persons just wrote things that later got "anthologized" by some "editors" as it were.

Personally I prefer to consider them on a book by book basis, rather than slamming the whole body of works.

So, you've put together your own anthology that differs from the official canon? Do you also consider the individual books themselves on a chapter by chapter or even verse by verse basis? Do you include any non-Biblical writings in your own personal canon?